1. Warming up with a poetry contest: Unraveling the poem Bradbury includes in F451: "Dover Beach"
a. Tell me the story of each stanza. In other words, put each stanza into your own words (look up any vocab you don't know).
b. Tell me everything you know about the poem's speaker.
c. Find an important metaphor and explain it to me carefully (what is being compared to what and why?).
d. Find three images, each appealing to a different sense, and explain what they contribute to the poem.
e. Describe what you think is the poem's tone. Defend your response with two details from the poem.
f. Identify what you see as an important shift in the poem, and explain the nature of the shift.
g. Find one important allusion in the poem. Look up that allusion, and explain why the poem might make this particular allusion. In other words, what does it contribute to the poem.
h. What do you think its the poem's theme? In other words, what lesson is it trying to teach us?
i. Of all the poems in the entire world, why might Bradbury include this one in F451? (You will be coming across it in tonight's reading). In other words, how does this theme of this poem overlap with the ideas in F451?
j. Ask one good level 3 question that pertains to this poem.
(P.S. This is a contest. The best poetry explication gets a prize.)
2. Enjoying Fishbowl #5: F451, pages 80-102
3. Wrapping up by responding to the focus question
HW:
1. Read through the end of Part 2 (page 110); tomorrow, we will start reading Part 3 together so that you can be prepared for Fishbowl discussion on Thursday, which will cover reading through page 139.
2. Start putting your F451 words 16-25, "incessant" through "prattle" in www.quizlet.com (quiz this Friday).
"Where ignorant armies clash by night" is very similar to the ignorance of the people in Montag's society.
ReplyDeleteThe beach is described as peaceful and normal, but it secretly has a depressing tone to it that becomes more obvious later. (Just like in F451)
ReplyDeleteFrom the poem the image of the ocean spraying as it meets the pebble land reminds me of the soothing feeling that Montag got when it was raining and he caught raindrops in his mouth.
ReplyDeleteThe clashing if water and rocks and the fire burning the books
ReplyDelete"of the pebbles which the waves draw back" Faber and Montag rebelling against the society and the government.
ReplyDelete"Where ignorant armies clash by night" is like how the war is happening and the people don't know what they are fighting for.
ReplyDeleteThe idea that the sea is calm in Dover Beach reminds me of the image of the sidewalk that Guy walks down in the first few pages of the book.
ReplyDeleteMontag crushing the book and the waves crushing the pebbles.
ReplyDelete"The Sea of Faith Was once too at the full and round Earth's shore..." This reminds me of F451 because the society has gone to major destruction, and once like the Sea of Faith, both are decreasing in value.
ReplyDelete"The Sea of Faith was once, too, at the full, and round earth's shore"
ReplyDelete" Is it true that long ago firemen put fires out instead of going to start them?"
"You hear the granting roar / Of pebbles which the waves draw back, and fling". After everything seeming so calm and wonderful like the society in Fahrenheit 451, people start to hear the discomfort and unhappiness of how they live.
ReplyDelete"The sea of faith was once, too, at the full." is very similar to how the people where before the censorship hit and now what Montag is trying to make them become. The sea of faith is a close resemblance to how much faith we have in the world.
ReplyDeleteCome to the window, sweet is in the air!
ReplyDeleteHe let his breath go in a great sigh.
"Was once, too, full, and round earth's shore" I think this shows how over time change has taken place, just like how they used to be able to read books but their society has changed.
ReplyDelete"Struggle and Flight" people aren't aware of struggle in the world nor do they know their full potential.
ReplyDelete"The sea is calm tonight, The tide is full the moon lies fair..." This is how Montag's society is at a glance, but as you get closer less and less of it is true, much like the way the poet slowly reveals that there is no real happiness.
ReplyDelete"turbid ebb and flow of human misery" reminds me of "trying to be of that religion, trying to know what that religion was,"
ReplyDeleteF451: "The others in the middle of the desert watched her crying grow very loud."
ReplyDeleteDover Beach: "With tremulous cadence slow, and bring the eternal note of sadness in."
The image from the poem is "Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight" connects to F451 by Guy being confused with his job and why he does it.
ReplyDeleteThe grating roar of pebbles which the waves draw back is like when Montag is on the beach with the sieve.
ReplyDeleteThe sea is very tame but it has this dark side to it in the poem which reminds me of Montag because he is very calm but he has a dark side to him because he wants to read books and he wants to know why they burn the books.
ReplyDeleteThe peaceful waves crashing on the shore and the discomfort andunhappiness of Montag.
ReplyDeletethe pebbles are getting pulled back into the sea reminds me of how Montag is trying to rebel and go against the grain, but the sea or society keeps trying to pull him back.
ReplyDeleteHow the poem starts out with the beach having a calm side and then a loud and harsh side reminds me of how Montage started off fine and did what everyone else does than starting thinking and going against the government.
ReplyDeleteBoth show no certitude and no joy throughout life. Such as when Montag can never trust his own wife and the beach is weary and depressing.
ReplyDelete"The sea is calm tonight". The night that Montag brings the book back to the firehouse starts out calm but quickly goes wrong.
ReplyDelete"Ah, love, let us be true to one another! for the world, which seems to lie before us like a land of dreams"
ReplyDelete"Where did we meet and where..."
"I dont know"
"No. Houses have always been fireproof" (8) "Was once, too, at the full, and round earths shore." Both houses and the shore have never changed and have always been the same as far as people know.
ReplyDelete"Swept with confused alarms of struggle and flight" this quote from the poem really shows exactly how Mr. Montag is feeling about his job right now.
ReplyDeleteDo you think Mildred will find the books in their new hiding spot?
ReplyDeleteI don't think she will. She is too stuck in her TV world and found them by accident last time.
DeleteI think that if she doesn't find the books she will tell someone who will punish Montag and burn the books.
DeleteDo you think Faber could have any relationship w/ Clarisse, possibly her uncle?
ReplyDeleteIf you disagree do you think Faber could mysteriously die similar to Clarisse?
Yes, I feel as if they are symbolically the same person. That is why they both have a big affect in Montag.
DeleteDo you think that Mildred will ever be on Montag's side on books?
ReplyDeleteMontag has to convince Mildred to look at life with the same perspective as him.
DeleteYes, I do think this. I think this because she has not ratted him out yet, and she also lied to her girl friends about Montag and his book. I feel like she is starting to turn more like Montag.
DeleteI think Mildred will begin to like them if Montag brings more books home.
DeleteDo you think that the government knows about Faber?
ReplyDeleteYes, because I think he has been with the people being burned for a long time now. I don't think that the government can find him though.
DeleteI don't think they specifically know about him but I do think Beatty knows that there is someone else that is propelling Montag's thoughts and questions of the society.
DeleteI think the government knows that Faber knows a lot about books and probably has had some but they just haven't found any at his house, this is how I think Montag knew about him because they probably have been called to his house.
DeleteDoes the media and books make people feel bad for themselves?
ReplyDeleteI think it could because the poem made the lady cry. I think they it could have a bad affect
Deletewhy did the passage from Dover Beach bring out such strong emotion from Mrs Phelps?
ReplyDeleteOn page 99, Montag decides to read Dover Beach, Why would the author have Montag read this poem over any other poem? How are the poem and the story similar? Different?
ReplyDeleteFaber knows so much about life and books so why doesn't he spread his knowledge?
ReplyDeleteI think that he is scared of defending the books because he knows he will die if the government finds out. So he would rather keep it to himself.
DeleteBecause he is too scared about losing his life, and all his resources and books being burned.
DeleteHe doesn't spread his knowledge because he doesn't want to be discovered and thrown in jail or even killed.
DeleteHow can we trust Mildred anymore?
ReplyDeleteI think we could because she did cover up Montag. But we also saw her burning Montag's books. But I think we could or we could not trust them.
DeleteFaber lives a risky life so it is very easily to get caught with no support
ReplyDeleteOn page 80, Faber speaks about the life of the average person: "Off hours, yes. But time to think?". Why do people not want to think? Why is it always go, go, go even in our society today?
ReplyDeleteIs mildred a trustworthy person?
ReplyDeleteI do not trust her anymore. She is playing scared
DeleteI think she is slightly trustworthy right now, but that can change easily.
DeleteBy my standards in today's world, not really. In the book's society though, I think she is definitely trustworthy. People don't even know their own deepest secrets, so why would they need to share them? As long as people are friendly and enjoyable, they are trustworthy in this society.
DeleteIs Montag starting to lose control or is he still in control of the whole situation? Did he ever have control?
ReplyDeleteI don't think he ever had control because he isn't sure what to do next.
DeleteIf he did have any control, he completely lost it. After his act with the outburst including the book in front of Mildred and her friends, he has lost it.
DeleteMontag might be getting in over his head with information about books that he still hasn't found out yet. The need for more knowledge is all he can think about.
DeleteI don't think he really has control. He is almost just going with the flow and hoping he doesn't mess anything up too bad.
DeleteHe is definatly not in total control, he is sort of starting to realize that the whole system is corrupt for banning books in the first place, and thus deeply bothers him
DeleteI see Montag as being the same as he was before but just on the opposite side now. He is still not thinking for himself, he is just being controlled by Faber similarly to how he was controlled by whatever power beforehand. I think he is trying to obtain more control by thinking for himself, but as of now, he has very little control.
DeleteRay Bradbury most likly chose Dover beach for montag to read because the message in Dover bach and in f451 are similar, the the poem applies to the main theme scene in the book
ReplyDeleteOn page 90 Faber says, "Do your own fit of saving, and if you drown, die knowing you were headed for shore" how does this quote connect to the Dover Beach?
ReplyDeletePage 86 not 90
DeleteOn page 99, Bradbury brings up the poem, Dover Beach, why do you think that he chose this instead of anything else?
ReplyDeleteTo answer Grant's question, I think he chose "Dover Beach" because it shows how "Dover Beach" is lifeless and appears good, but really is fake, and deprived from all life, choices and is bland as can be. Not a lot of other poets can put that into words.
ReplyDeleteWhy is Montag doing all of this? What is his purpose or overall goal that he wants to achieve?
ReplyDeleteI think he wants to find the truth or further learn about what Clarisse told him.
Delete"Go to the firehouse when its time. Ill be with you" (91) Faber isnt being clear to montag whether or not he should go.
ReplyDeleteDover Beach; "Begin, and cease, and then again begin," which compares to Montag's job of having to burn a house and books, then wait, and then burn another in an everlasting cycle.
ReplyDeleteI am still confused about Dover beach. How does it all connect?
ReplyDeleteAs I understood it, in the beginning everything seems calm and peaceful just like the book's society. Then you listen and hear something which creates doubts in your mind, similar to how Montag heard Clarisse speak and doubts about his society were created. From there, the melancholy and sadness grows more, just as how Montag is seeing the sadness within his wife and his society more and more each day.
DeleteOn page 86, Faber says "Do your own bit of saving, and if you drown at least die knowing you were headed for shore." How does this quote relate to the poem he read "Dover Beach?'
ReplyDeleteIt shows how the beach looked depressing but it was a peaceful place at the same time.
DeleteWill Montag continue on his quest to achieve happiness or will he be shut down and come up short?
ReplyDeleteDo you think books or poems bring out another person in the reader? considering Mildred's friend crying, she subconsciously figured out that the society she lives in is terrible.
ReplyDeleteAs Montag says on page 87, "You know dozens, admit it!" do you think that Faber does know a lot of people that are like himself?
ReplyDeleteI think he probably knows a lot of people like himself because there probably have been people like Montag who want to know more and have come to Faber to learn.
DeleteI think there are more people like Faber but, I think that they would be nervous to help just like Faber was when Montag first talked to him.
DeleteWhy is it that Ray Bradbury only shows us montag reading the poems last two stanzas? Are these stanzas even more important than the ones in the beggining?
ReplyDeleteI think they are the ones that affect people and they did because it made a lady cry.
DeleteWill Clarise have an effect on the rest of the story even though she is dead? It seems like she has been ignored throughout this section even though shes a vital character to the story.
ReplyDeleteOn page 94, Mildrid's friend says, "Quick war. 48 hours and it will be done."
ReplyDeleteHow can a war go by this quick? Also, are other society oppressed and what could they fight for?
Montag is becoming so distant and different than everyone.
ReplyDeleteWhat will happen to Montag once the government finds out he has been reading these books?
ReplyDeleteThe government is going to come after him because of the threat he possesses.
DeleteThey will probably take him to jail or if he runs the hounds will chase him.
DeleteWhy doesn't anyone remember anything?
ReplyDeleteI think you could go back to education and you could also see that these people are being brain washed and they do not really know it.
DeleteWhy does Faber cry after hearing the poem montag reads?
ReplyDeleteMildred said on page 95, "Now, Guy, just who are you talking to?" Montag was speaking to Faber, a man he barely knows, and obeying his commands. How is this similar to Mildred and her "family"? Do you think Montag can even make progress by doing what he is doing or will he have to forge his own path?
ReplyDeleteTo go off Cooper, I agree the unknown is a scary thing and that's what their society struggles with.
ReplyDelete